Post Game Rule Discussion

HoI2: Arsenal of Democracy. Home of the former (now legendary!) Tuesday Pacific game.

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gogopher
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Re: Post Game Rule Discussion

Post: # 53620Post gogopher
Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:17 pm

sabbath wrote:However regarding EXP forces, I am not convinced that it isn't helping Allies more than Axis. The reported Allied division counts do seem a bit ridiculous. I vote no EXP forces on any further 1.07 games.


I really hope the game will continue, as noted I have not got to do much, and especially Duck has not as he does not have the Maiden China to toy around with. :mrgreen:
im not disputing that it is helping the allies...nor in a game without czechs in the axis and japan at war with the allies in 1939 would i dispute that the numbers would be skewed toward the allies...both events are true for this game...recall we all agreed to expo/inherited forces and we all agreed to a wide open game...both are conditions that are perfect for expo forces

in a historic or semi-historic game that forced german to only chose historically regarding austria and czech then expo forces are a wash or slightly allied favored if combined with inherited forces...

remember in this game we have indeed profited from them but so has germany...and to a much higher degree...i wont go into numbers but we have gained far less in terms of divisions and quality than germany has...they have the ability to expo the entire starting czech, hungarian, romanian, and bulgarian armies as well as italy and any new builds...we recieved a few poles, a small amount of french and a few greeks....plus a good amount of vichy divs...almost all iberain divs have been lost to date...all in all we have recieved far fewer than the axis has or can have as a total

sabbath
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Re: Post Game Rule Discussion

Post: # 57726Post sabbath
Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:19 pm

Item for discussion:
Automatic as well as mandatory substitutions rules.
Suggestions include:
Automatic substitution of any country by any means available for last second cancellations (<2 days).
Preferred substitution list turned in by each player pre-game or when a player is added.
Mandatory substitution for cancellations 3+ days in advance for players belonging to factions that have 3 or more players or by a trusted outsider/newcomer sub.


Item for discussion:
Eligibility requirements and attendance penalties.
Suggestions include:
Commitment level of average X hours per week to be eligible to play. 3? 4? 5?
Computer and network spec requirements to keep the game playable.
Players cancelling at the last second (<2 days) X amount of times in a given rolling 2? month period will be substituted by the AI or sub for any further cancellations for the duration of the game. X=1? 2? 3?
Players cancelling at any time X amount of times in a given rolling 2? month will be substituted by the AI or sub for any further cancellations for the duration of the game. X = 2? 3? 4?
Players cancelling further after AI substitution is in effect , X times for the remainder of the game will be considered for removal. X = 1? 2? 3? 4? 5?



I believe these rules will serve to enhance the game experience and fun, as well as helping games to be completed much quicker. One game is not that important nor worth extending perpetually when many could be played instead.
More games creates more opportunity for learning and improving. Losing or having the AI control your country due to consistent lack of availability is not the end of the world and should not be rewarded.
The many who show good attendance should not be punished for the actions of the few.
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gogopher
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Re: Post Game Rule Discussion

Post: # 57771Post gogopher
Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:08 pm

dude people have lives...and i for one will never allow the AI to run my country or anyone else that i dont give express permission too...sorry if RL intrudes on game time but them is the breaks

sabbath
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Re: Post Game Rule Discussion

Post: # 57785Post sabbath
Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:53 am

"people have lives" means nothing.

Everyone here "has a life" and they manage to be responsible enough to meet their commitments.

"Having a life" is the very point of my proposal since it would allow people to have lives AND get games completed.
The reason things intrude is because we make the game take 11 months because of ridiculous insistence on having FRANCE controlled by a human for every single second and not even allowing a sub for 1 month. With MULTIPLE well/MORE qualified subs available!

"Them"??? Is not the breaks, this is a game that is run for the benefit of the majority, not the minority. (And if that has strayed it will be corrected sooner or later).
The majority...every other player on here, has allowed subs... except for you two.

The game is not = life. (For most people anyway!). Having someone sub your country for 1 month on very slow is not the end of the world sir!!!
Last edited by sabbath on Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:14 am, edited 7 times in total.
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sabbath
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Re: Post Game Rule Discussion

Post: # 57788Post sabbath
Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:56 am

Especially : Missing raids in MMORPGs is NOT a valid excuse or reason to miss. :evil:
Last edited by sabbath on Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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cougy
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Re: Post Game Rule Discussion

Post: # 57790Post cougy
Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:51 am

sabbath you really need to chill out and stop with the attacks.

sabbath
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Re: Post Game Rule Discussion

Post: # 57791Post sabbath
Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:55 am

Not my intention to attack.

Only proposals for future rules for next game to improve the game experience for all players. I posted my suggestion, can discuss them after the game.
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gogopher
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Re: Post Game Rule Discussion

Post: # 57801Post gogopher
Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:52 am

"people have lives" means nothing.
are u just insensitive or completely lost...AoD ranks about 1 millionith on my "real life" meter...its a game and i play it for fun...not for duty...i will make it if i can...but i sure as hell wont let it get in the way of real life matters...

just because u do/want to play 24/7 doesnt mean everyone else is in the same boat...far as i can tell the understanding has always been just that....understanding...something unexpected comes up we dont play unless the player missing finds or allows a sub...its that simple...sorry if that doesnt fit into ur manic must play attitude but as i said before: people have lives and those things within them often trump AoD...sorry bro thems the breaks...

sabbath
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Re: Post Game Rule Discussion

Post: # 57804Post sabbath
Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:31 pm

The point was everyone here has their own lives.
Yet most players here are on time and do not cancel often.

I do not want to play 24/7. I want to play on the days and times that I agreed to set aside. Nothing more.

Everyone else here has taken a sub and it should simply be clarified in the rules as pedal said.
People make a commitment to do things in life be it show up for work, play games, or whatever it may be, and here they have been subbed for that is how it has always worked so yes, sorry "bro", that's how playing with others goes.

No one is telling anyone how to spend their time. Simply to be courteous and honest about their availability, and if "real life matters" are going to happen often enough to disrespect others time, they kindly designate a sub or take a hiatus like pedal/nibe.
These games have gone on long enough without conclusion that a discussion about codifying some rules to get them completed should be had.
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cougy
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Re: Post Game Rule Discussion

Post: # 57854Post cougy
Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:02 pm

Couple of proposals (warning wall of text):

1)Expo Forces: I think we can all agree that expo forces in the current game have gotten a touch out of hand. I propose that we eliminate expo forces, with a couple of caveats:
a) IMHO the UK should be allowed to expo force all it's Commonwealth/Dominion (Canada, NZ, Kangaroo-land, and South Africa). These "countries" armed forces fought under and in complete conjunction with the UK armies throughout the war, and were even within the UK OoB.
b) The UK should be allowed to "steal" or expo force 1 or 2 French divisions to represent the Free French.
c) German should be allow to expo force, if they wish (but with the Italian org it would be crazy) a couple of units to represent the Germans in Africa.
d) Italy & Romania could expo a number of troops to Germany to represent their forces in Russia.
-) I aint married to b,c,d but I really think that the UK should be allowed to expo all the Dominion.

2)Paratroops: These units really seem to be totally out of whack and OP. I would like to propose the removal of their use altogether. A problem would be that some countries start with transport aircraft. If we remove the use of paras would should eliminate those countries transports and give them either a Tac or NAV as replacement. I forget which countries have transports. But for instance take Germany, their para transport planes were the JU52 Tantes...which we used early in the war as tac bombers. The Soviets used that crazy 8-engine strat bomber as their para transport (remember seeing some pictures of extra dudes hanging of the wings, silly Soviets), but they if they start with a transport should maybe get a strat or something as a replacement.

3)VoV: Victory or Valhalla has allows struck me as wrong and not overly accurate. Yes, both German and USSR had no retreat orders, the Japanese had their honor/faith in the Emperor, the French loved their smokes & cheese, the US Rangers & UK commandos were ninja, and the Italian had their super power ranger skills of advancing backwards. But these were rare events and happened in varying times throughout the war. VoV, IMHO really eliminates the "historic" flavor of countries and their units (especially with regard to morale). Would the Soviets have targeted and broken the Romanian's at Stalingard if those units had VoV and could have held the line for weeks or months until the panzer's arrived? Did the German's hold the D-day invasion beaches for weeks or months, or was it hours? Any infantry unit (doesn't matter edition 1918, 36, 41, etc) is a super space ninja on VoV and can hold the line unrealisticly with late game Org. Why have unit morale at all?

These are just my thoughts and opinions, but I think they are adversely affecting our current game.

pedal2000
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Re: Post Game Rule Discussion

Post: # 57884Post pedal2000
Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:27 pm

sabbath wrote: Everyone else here has taken a sub and it should simply be clarified in the rules as pedal said.
The point isn't to force a sub, but simply to be flexible. There will be sessions where a sub simply cannot be acceptable to the team. The start of Barbarossa, or D-Day for example. At the same time, if the world is just chilling along, ideally each team has a minor player or someone who can 'step up' and fill in! Perhaps it would be good to have a neutral-esque? player who can fulfill the sub role as needed - if that's possible.

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