GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

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hugolin
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Re: GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

Post: # 57107Post hugolin
Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:37 pm

Good God! I'm not gonna read all of this. Not now anyway.

Capital bombing: I found a simple solution.

Capital Bombing:
Only 'Industrial Bombardment Missions' are allowed on the Capital province.

Like I was writing:
"This game brought me to realize a lot of new rules, so that's the positive. But I'm kind of emotionally drained from it all, and I don't look with pleasure at next tuesday, it's actually more of a chore now..."
"Defending like Chiang, attacking like Il Douche, Conquering like... Emperor Cheeto, Emperor of the Sino-Japanese Empire of the peaceful sun of the Eastern horizon"

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Brother Lobo
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Re: GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

Post: # 57171Post Brother Lobo
Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:48 am

sabbath wrote:2 Unfortunately the contention seems to be not with this particular game but a personality conflict between players. Starting a new game with these same players now would certainly carry over lingering resentment and attitudes that would inevitably flare up again. Ending/starting anew now would not suddenly wipe the slate clean, so we may as well finish. Lobo has stated he will finish for Axis, and I would do the same for Allies.

I am not a psychology major, and I do not have any solution for the intrapersonal issues.
Maybe this group is suffering without strong (or even clear) leadership after the retirement of Jones and the leave of absence of pedal?
This would be about the time Jones would slam on the brakes, turn to the squabbling children in the back seat, and threaten to knock their heads together if he hears one more word out of either of them. Perhaps that is why he retired.
I don't really see it as a personality conflict. I have specific greivances which I chose to state publicly. It's more of a behavioral issue regarding two specific players. In any event, there isn't much more I can say on the issue so it is time to move on.

As far as leadership goes, I don't think abruptly ending a game which players have invested months in is really an example of good leadership. It is just a catch all bandaid solution that avoids dealing with the actual issues at the heart of the matter.

As I said before, I hope we can finish this game and deal with these issues before the next one (assuming there is a next one, which I hope there will be).


Now, about the Capital supply mechanic. I made it pretty clear that I think it is discriminatory towards Germany to grant semi-immunity to enemy capitals since Germany has already pursued a strategy which does not allow the specific targeting of ICs. It has taken 4 years to get rockets, and there was no talk of restricting them prior to the game, this is something which is being imposed mid game. Rockets destroy much more infra than ICs so IC rich provinces like London will get to retain almost all of the base ICs if I must suspend strikes when infra is low.

Is it possible to enable Industrial Bombardment for Rockets through an edit? This would allow Germany to retain its right to target capital ICs, exactly like the allies can specifically target capital ICs if they want, without bringing the supply mechanic into play in a major way. This might be a way to address the issue in a fair manor.

By the way, my offer still stands if the allies want London to remain untouched. Withdraw allied troops from Europe and grant Berlin the same immunity and so long as that remains the case, I will never strike London.
"Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." - Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis"

El Duck
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Re: GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

Post: # 57178Post El Duck
Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:22 am

hugolin wrote:Now, about the Capital supply mechanic. I made it pretty clear that I think it is discriminatory towards Germany to grant semi-immunity to enemy capitals since Germany has already pursued a strategy which does not allow the specific targeting of ICs. It has taken 4 years to get rockets, and there was no talk of restricting them prior to the game, this is something which is being imposed mid game. Rockets destroy much more infra than ICs so IC rich provinces like London will get to retain almost all of the base ICs if I must suspend strikes when infra is low.
I don't see the suggestion that capital infrastructure as discriminatory towards Germany at all. Japan in China was the first country affected and if we had allowed capital infrastructure to contine without any restrictions Japan itself could very easily been next. Huggy, very clearly explained how seriously his units were affected. The capital supply mechanic is quite clearly an oversight by the developers and will soon be corrected. Germany is free to destroy and other provinces except capitals and can seriously damage capitals. This seems a rather good return on Germany's return on rockets.

This issue was not addressed prior to the start of the game because it had never come up before and as far as I know no body in the group was aware of it.
hugolin wrote:As far as leadership goes, I don't think abruptly ending a game which players have invested months in is really an example of good leadership. It is just a catch all bandaid solution that avoids dealing with the actual issues at the heart of the matter.
I don't understand what I am doing wrong to make both of the above quotes show that they are from Huggy when they are taken directly from Lobo. Anyway, I am enjoying the game itself a great deal. I have not done anything in the war but have enjoyed building up my country and playing politics. I have never had so much fun saber rattling! What is bothering me are the many terrible accusations been hurled around with little justifications, the personal insults, and our seemingly inability to work together to solve problems. I would like to see this game play out at least until one of the major countries is destroyed.
El Duck wrote:This game brought me to realize a lot of new rules, so that's the positive. But I'm kind of emotionally drained from it all, and I don't look with pleasure at next tuesday, it's actually more of a chore now..."
This quote is from Huggy but it is the way I feel too. Perhaps my computer could tell and felt it should attribute it to me.

sabbath
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Re: GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

Post: # 57187Post sabbath
Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:53 am

AFAIK The rule we adopted last session (and also in Friday game) was no bombing capitals below 40% allowed. Seems to be working reasonably.
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cougy
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Re: GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

Post: # 57190Post cougy
Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:44 am

I agree with Sabbath

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Brother Lobo
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Re: GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

Post: # 57195Post Brother Lobo
Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:26 pm

El Duck wrote:I don't see the suggestion that capital infrastructure as discriminatory towards Germany at all. Japan in China was the first country affected and if we had allowed capital infrastructure to contine without any restrictions Japan itself could very easily been next. Huggy, very clearly explained how seriously his units were affected. The capital supply mechanic is quite clearly an oversight by the developers and will soon be corrected. Germany is free to destroy and other provinces except capitals and can seriously damage capitals. This seems a rather good return on Germany's return on rockets.
I cannot make this much clearer. The Allies can specifically target my capital ICs right now. Under such a rule I cannot do the same to any significant effect. Thus Germany is being discriminated against. I cannot undo 4 years of research and planning. I don't really have the option of switching to Strat bombers right now since that requires years of research and production too.

No one answered my question, so I'll repeat it again-

Can the Industrial Bombardment mission be enabled for rockets through a simple edit? If it can, this would be an acceptable solution.
"Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." - Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis"

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Brother Lobo
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Re: GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

Post: # 57196Post Brother Lobo
Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:29 pm

By the way, is there a session tonight?
"Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." - Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis"

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Re: GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

Post: # 57198Post El Duck
Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:18 pm

I think that there will be a session tonight. I will be there.
cougy wrote:Can the Industrial Bombardment mission be enabled for rockets through a simple edit? If it can, this would be an acceptable solution.
i don't have the knowledge if this is possible or not. If is can be done it would sure solve a lot of problems and I would be for it.

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Re: GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

Post: # 57199Post El Duck
Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:18 pm

I think that there will be a session tonight. I will be there.
cougy wrote:Can the Industrial Bombardment mission be enabled for rockets through a simple edit? If it can, this would be an acceptable solution.
I don't have the knowledge if this is possible or not. If it can be done it would sure solve a lot of problems and I would be for it.

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Re: GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

Post: # 57202Post hugolin
Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:30 pm

I'll be there tonight, but I'm not into this game like I used to be... We played this game with the rules we had, but I'm looking forward to start a new game, with new rules. The game started to feel hollow a while back... You know, little bugs, exploits... Anyway, sticking with it, but my interest is rather low right now.


@ Lobo:for your answer, it could be good to simply open the unit file... flying_bomb.txt is the name. Seems V1s (and V2s) only have Strategic Attack. I wonder if we could have them have different attacks? re. industrial would be good...

air_unit_type = 1
model = {
cost = 2
buildtime = 30
defaultorganisation = 100
morale = 100
manpower = 0
maxspeed = 650
surfacedefence = 5
airdefence = 5
strategicattack = 60
softattack = 0
hardattack = 0
range = 250
supplyconsumption = 0.0
fuelconsumption = 0.0
}
"Defending like Chiang, attacking like Il Douche, Conquering like... Emperor Cheeto, Emperor of the Sino-Japanese Empire of the peaceful sun of the Eastern horizon"

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Re: GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

Post: # 57204Post sabbath
Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:34 pm

@Duck/cougy I don't understand what good that would do.

Axis can use their rockets for capital infrastructure down to 40% under the current rule.

If you guys are suggesting to change the rule to Industrial only on capitals, that doesn't solve anything as industrial bombing removes no infra and would be the same as not allowing infrastructure bombing on capital.
Last edited by sabbath on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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cougy
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Re: GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

Post: # 57205Post cougy
Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:41 pm

sabbath, I agreed that we did make a rule last session not to bomb a capital below 40% and it was working. I didnt suggest anything else.

I believe that Lobo has suggested since he invested X amount of time on rockets he gets to disregard the 40% rule because the rule is discriminatory against him, or something like that.

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Re: GAME 14, THE LAST TUESDAY AOD GAME

Post: # 57206Post gogopher
Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:49 pm

Is it possible to enable Industrial Bombardment for Rockets through an edit? This would allow Germany to retain its right to target capital ICs, exactly like the allies can specifically target capital ICs if they want, without bringing the supply mechanic into play in a major way. This might be a way to address the issue in a fair manor.

By the way, my offer still stands if the allies want London to remain untouched. Withdraw allied troops from Europe and grant Berlin the same immunity and so long as that remains the case, I will never strike London.

ridiculous...come on trying to blackmail the allies on an issue all ready solved is simply ludicrous...we will agree to use strat bombing as well to reduce berlin and go no more than 30-40inf...there now all is agreeable and no edit needed

oh and fyi it wasnt 4 years of slavish research and ic expenditure...u had to research 3 techs to get where u are at..the rest are on the road to jet fighters...and for u small investment u will be able to level half of england...if u go for v2's u can level the rest...so using ur exploit rockets will indeed pay off for you in the long run...im glad history is so well modelled in the use of v1/v2 rockets which in the war never did nor never could have done anything...bravo for finding a way to hurt the allies...bravo

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